spoken for

hmmm… what?

 

Uh, whatever, Apple.

March 21st, 2008
 

I’m currently on my laptop. I run Windows Vista. Yes, I’m becoming a Microsoft fangirl. But, I do have iTunes on here since it’s what I have on the desktop and since I have an (ancient) iPod. I also have QuickTime. I hate Quicktime. With a passion. But I have it anyway, it comes with iTunes and I guess it comes in handy if I want to view one of my cell phone videos.

So, with that being the extent of my Apple software, I was surprised when this popped up a bit ago:

Uh, yeah, I don’t have Safari but Apple wants to push it on me! I almost clicked to install without looking at it since it seems like there are constant iTunes and QuickTime updates. But look at the screenshot, it appears as if Safari has/is an update, rather than optional software.

So, uh, what’s the deal, Apple?

 
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43 Responses to “Uh, whatever, Apple.”

  1. Chad W Smith · (subscriber)
    March 21st, 2008 at 1.35 pm
     

    You see, you’ve sipped the koolaid, and didn’t know it. First, you get an iPod, then you install iTunes, which forces you to get Quicktime. Then the update sneaks Safari on you, and the next thing you know, you’re wishing all your apps were Apple apps - iLife, iWork, Mac OS X. It’s just Apple’s little way of trying to make it easier for you to become one of us.

    “One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us.”

  2. Emily
    March 21st, 2008 at 2.00 pm
     

    That happened to me a few weeks ago actually. Like you, my laptop runs on Vista but have itunes because of the ipod. I don’t like it either how they’re trying to push their other applications on us.

  3. Jamie
    March 21st, 2008 at 2.05 pm
     

    Hmm that’s interesting. I don’t have iTunes and I’ve never received anything like that. I would be quite annoyed but Microsoft does the same thing with updates sometimes.

  4. Yuta · (subscriber)
    March 21st, 2008 at 2.23 pm
     

    Eh… Apple’s not nearly the first. I still get annoying pushes from Yahoo, Google, Microsoft, AOL… just to name a few (no.. I DON’T want your frakkin’ toolbar).

    You were smart and actually read what they were pushing.

  5. Jeff · (subscriber)
    March 21st, 2008 at 2.27 pm
     

    >>I hate Quicktime. With a passion.<<
    Uh, whatever, Valerie. Nobody cares. Even if you could explain why.

    Delete QuickTime. Delete iTunes. Buy a Zune. Maybe that will make you happy.

  6. Linda
    March 21st, 2008 at 3.50 pm
     

    Safari’s actually a pretty good browser. I primarily use Firefox, but Safari is good for filling out forms and such on sites that have a fit with Firefox. That being said, it might be that Apple is trying to do something similar with Windows users, i.e. show them that Safari is a nice browser/give them a friendly alternative to IE.

    I use a MacBook 99.9% of the time, but I can switch Linux and Windows easily. I like the ease of use that Macs offer, but I prefer the system stability of Linux and the file organization and setup of Windows.

  7. Val
    March 21st, 2008 at 4.00 pm
     

    Naw, I turned Safari down, hehe. But knowing that stupid updater, it will try and sneak back. I’m not becoming a Mac user anytime soon though, sorry Chad!

    Jamie, I haven’t really noticed Windows doing this? The only thing I get from them are security updates. Unless I’m missing something?

    Yuta, but yeah, I see that with Google toolbar trying to come in with other applications. I’m sure it’s great, since it’s Google (haha, also love Google for the most part) but I just plain don’t need or want it. That does get annoying. But it’s always on install, not an update later after the program has been running for months.

    Jeff, uh, ouch?
    Besides, why bother to buy a Zune? My iPod works perfectly fine and I rarely use it these days, not to mention we also have a Sansa we don’t really use. Both were free (not gifts). Why spend money just to get a different product? I do like iTunes itself, anyway, did I mention that? Just hate QuickTime; in my opinion, it’s the most annoying program I’ve ever encountered… besides Microsoft Outlook, that is.
    Did you detect unhappiness? Nope, cancel it, move on, blog about it because I have nothing else to say at the moment, done.

    Well isn’t Linda all techy? :)
    I’m sure Safari is great, I’ve never used it, and if Firefox goes down the hole I know I’ll try it out. Was just really surprised to see Apple try to pull that on me.

  8. Tom
    March 21st, 2008 at 5.13 pm
     

    While we would probably disagree on most points Apple, we agree on this one. I think Apple’s use of their update vehicle to sneak in a new application is wrong:

    http://thesmallwave.com/2008/03/21/apple-to-windows-users-run-one-run-all/

    By the way, run the updater, and with only Safari selected choose Ignore This Update from the Tools menu so it won’t bother you again. It’s nice to be able to do this, but in my opinion it doesn’t absolve Apple of this mistake.

  9. Roger Mercer · (subscriber)
    March 21st, 2008 at 6.15 pm
     

    Uh. If I’m not mistaken, iTunes is built on Quicktime. It’s Quicktime with a database and a pretty face.

    No Quicktime, no iTunes. So I say dump both, if you don’t like them.

  10. zato
    March 21st, 2008 at 7.07 pm
     

    If you don’t like Apple or Apple products, then get rid of them. If you want to become an Apple hater site, you’re getting off to a good start. Be warned that a$$holes like me will turn this into an ugly place.

  11. Bes Z
    March 21st, 2008 at 9.36 pm
     

    I think the name, Apple Update, implies that it is an updater and not a new product offering. Also, the words “Select the items you want to update, then click Install” implies that the software selected is already installed and will be updated.

    Maybe Apple can create a new section called “Alternative products” or even “Other exiting products” so that people who only want updates and not advertisements will not be bothered by such update notifications which are in reality only advertisement notifications.” This is supposed to be an updater for existing installed products, given its name and description even on the window that installs Safari for the first time.

    An apple a day keeps the self-pride and hate doctor away.

  12. Val
    March 21st, 2008 at 9.45 pm
     

    Wow. Wait. Did I say I hated Apple? No. :)
    I also never said I wanted to get rid of QuickTime or iTunes. I do like iTunes except for the fact that it doesn’t adapt to Windows’ style and a few other small things (hey there are going to be things I’d change for every program out there). I happen to like iTunes better than Windows Media Player even. I don’t like QuickTime, so I don’t use it. Simple.

    Apple’s just fine - to each his own, it’s just not for me. I happen to love Vista, I really don’t understand why that offends the majority of Mac lovers.

    Bes is right. Apple is trying to trick people into thinking they already have this software and need to update it. It’s sneaky and I would say the same thing if it was my Microsoft Word trying to get me to install MSN Explorer, or something.

  13. Johnathan Swift
    March 21st, 2008 at 10.16 pm
     

    The reason some Mac folks get riled at Windows users is the same reason folks are passionate about their favorite sports team or car model. It’s just a fact of life one has to deal with. As for Apple being sneaky I think you’re exaggerating a bit. If they were being truly sneaky they wouldn’t even give you the choice to not install Safari. In fact they would give it some fictional name like special iTunes update. Apple’s not being sneaky they’re just offering to give you Safari for free.

  14. Melangell
    March 21st, 2008 at 10.52 pm
     

    Must agree with Jeff and Zato… First off, you hate QuickTime but don’t mention why. Do you actually know why, or what it does? Do you not like something that just works? Are you somehow a fan of WMV??? Whoa… I’m glad I’m drinking! If you don’t like Apple, don’t use it’s products. DELETE them. You said that (in the wake of the Vista fiasco, viruses, etc, etc) that you were becoming a “Microsoft fangirl”. By the gods, why? Why put yourself through the pain that is Windows? Hells, even PC mags admit that OS X is the best OS on the market. I digress though… When it comes down to it, Jeff and Zato are correct. Remove iTunes (based on QuickTime… basis for MP4) and QuickTime, buy or be given some other lesser player and revel in your wonderful carefree Microsoft world.

  15. Val
    March 22nd, 2008 at 12.01 am
     

    When did this become about QuickTime? Seriously. I DID say why I have it: it comes with iTunes.

    Again, Mac or Windows: to each his own, it’s all about opinion, like it or not.

  16. acortes
    March 22nd, 2008 at 12.07 am
     

    QuickTime is a component. You do not need to keep the application that plays the videos unless you download one. As a framework component it useful because of it’s wide array for royalty free codecs and graphic converters.
    I can see why just a regular ipod user would be scared of it and not even know what its for.

    Without QuickTime iTunes doest work. Its the same on the Mac. Quicktime has the mp3/mp4, h.264 among other codecs you need to view movies and play music.

    The updater is not lying to you it never says its updating Safari. It is only offering it as a download. If you down want to see that window again click the check for updates checkbox in the control panel. You wont be bothered by mean old Apple anymore… :)

    Cheers

  17. Val
    March 22nd, 2008 at 12.11 am
     

    I read the comment wrong earlier. No, I don’t really need to say why I don’t like QuickTime. Just don’t like it. That’s all. Have no problem with iTunes. Like iTunes. I mentioned already that I like iTunes better than Windows Media Player, I don’t really care for WMP.

    Pain is relative.

  18. Chad W Smith · (subscriber)
    March 22nd, 2008 at 12.36 am
     

    @Val #15 - you said in the post “I hate Quicktime, with a passion.” So people are responding to that. iTunes is built on Quicktime, without it, there is no iTunes. So if you like iTunes - you like Quicktime. The Quicktime player is just a simple media player. It’s got some annoying start up things, if you turn those off, it’s much like any other basic mp3 player (software version).

    Do I agree with Apple’s decision to push Safari this way? No. But, as many have pointed out - Apple is not the first company to do this. Also, it’s an opt-in thing. You have to check the box to get the “upgrade”/install.

    To give some clarity, Apple’s motivation may not be completely evil - or pushy. On Mac OS X - Apple’s native tongue, as it were - the “Software Update” includes everything from iLife (iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, iWeb, GarageBand), to iWork (Pages, Keynote, Numbers), to Safari, to iTunes, to the operating system - and any other Apple software you have. Just like Google updater installs and updates everything from Google - and Microsoft Update (yes - on Mac and Windows) - does everything from Microsoft.

    They may have simply ported over that format - one updater to rule them all - from Mac OS X.

    Now, some have said that Microsoft does not install anything new - hogwash. Genuine Advantage - Malware Detection Tool - IE 7 - etc. - There are things that it installs - or at least tries to install - that you didn’t ask for - and may not want. The same “opt in” check-this-box-to-continue rules apply - and you are free to hit “cancel” or just not check the box - but that’s the same with the Apple Update, too. If you don’t check the box next to Safari (which you didn’t), then you don’t get the new software. It’s as simple as that.

  19. Chuck
    March 22nd, 2008 at 7.57 am
     

    Kinda like MSFT integrating Internet Explorer into Windows…back in the old days. No one complained about that.

    Except the feds.

    You may not like Safari but it is so much more Internet standards compliant than IE. Microsoft can’t and won’t play nicely. With them it’s their way or…they lose the market to someone else.

  20. Val
    March 22nd, 2008 at 8.29 am
     

    I might have more to say later, but just a quick comment to Chuck: I never said I didn’t like Safari, said I never used it before. Also said I use FireFox. Only use IE for testing purposes. Also, I heard IE is becoming standards-compliant with version 8.

  21. Wes
    March 22nd, 2008 at 9.10 am
     

    Val - your point about Apple’s updater adding software to the machine is understood. Apple’s iTunes is basically a web browser specifically built to connect to their Music Store. For all we know it uses the same toolkit as Safari… Quicktime is Apple’s competitor to Window’s Media Player and Real Networks. It’s a media player. You may have heard the terms AAC, MPEG-4, 3GPP… All of these have become standards in the industry for Audio, Video, and Mobile Standards. Quicktime supports these standards. Each of the other Media players also have CODECs or means to support them as well. At this point in time, you must use quicktime to play the music purchased from iTunes. Apple like every other technology company, utilizes technologies that they have built, to further advance themselves in the industry. Your point is well taken about Companies use of the updaters to add software to your computer. If Apple hears enough noise about it, maybe they will change their tactic. Apple, Microsoft, Nokia, Symbian, and Google are in the middle of a fierce battle for the mobile market. Safari is at the center of this battle. Because of the iPhone, Safari has become the ‘golden boy’ when it comes to mobile communication. Apple wants to ensure that when individuals test their web sites that they also test it on the Safari browser so users have a great mobile web experience. Each one of these vendors have a lot to offer and are the reason that technology continues to improve. Good Thread…

  22. Chad W Smith · (subscriber)
    March 22nd, 2008 at 9.31 am
     

    @Val #20 - They said the same thing about IE 7, and I think about IE 6. I don’t think IE will *ever* be standards compliant. IE was specifically designed back in the first browser wars to *not be* standards compliant. And Microsoft is much more worried about backwards compatibility than … well innovation, standards, usability, stability, security, accessibility, user demand, … you get the idea.

    The only way IE could be both standards compliant and backwards compatible is if they try the Netscape 8 thing - two rendering engines - IE 7 and IE 8, or IE 6 and Firefox or something.

  23. mitchell Magouirk
    March 22nd, 2008 at 11.23 am
     

    microsoft office for mac requires ie7 for update.guess what,microsoft doesn’t make ie7 for mac.go figure

  24. Jessie
    March 22nd, 2008 at 12.54 pm
     

    Uh, weird. Come on Val, ASSIMILATE!

  25. Bes Z
    March 22nd, 2008 at 1.07 pm
     

    So typical. Bringing Microsoft into the issue so that one can follow the model “Other side is more evil!” Same thing when discussing issues with Microsoft; MS supporters of the strange kind coming and start saying “No one bashes Apple and Apple is evil, if you don’t like MS then don’t use MS products!” Either we need sympathy, or we bring in other conflicting topics to try to make ourselves look like the victims so we can get sympathy; we don’t focus on the point at hand since we don’t have a point.

    Issue is the above picture. It says it is updating software. It is lying. Apply is lying in the above picture. I don’t care if MS is lying or Hitler is lying or if the fish is lying. I don’t care how Safari works or how IE works for this issue. This is a post about Apple pushing Safari as an update when in reality it is not an update, and the above image shows Apple is lying. It’s a marketing gimmick; sure, and it’s lying. It says it is updating the software listed in the box, when in reality it is installing it for the first time. Who cares if intention is 100% evil or they were 1% evil and 99% giddish. The above window is lying.

    Liaaaar.

  26. Chad W Smith · (subscriber)
    March 22nd, 2008 at 1.36 pm
     

    Hey, Genius Bes - The screenshot says - in BIG BOLD LETTERS “New Software is Available from Apple”. Where in that sentence does it say anything about the software already being installed on your system? The program is called Apple Software Update. It then tells the user to select what items you want to update. If you don’t want Safari - simply don’t check it - just like Val did here. She read the screen and chose not to install the “New Software” that “is available.” That was her choice - as it is to every user of the software.

    If users choose not to read the screen - that’s their own problem, and their own fault if they get stuff they don’t want. The box is not checked by default - it is an extra effort that the user has to make to get that software.

    There is no lying here - other than you lying about what the picture says.

  27. Bes Z
    March 22nd, 2008 at 2.05 pm
     

    Excellent - this is so cute, this can serve as my breakfast.

    “Select the items you want to update” - Wow are you missing that? The “Apple Software Update” - are you missing that?

    Liaaaaar. Looking forward to your reply, as I’m hungry for lunch.

  28. Jessie
    March 22nd, 2008 at 4.13 pm
     

    Um, this is how wars are started, people. Let’s stop calling each other liars and get right down to the point:

    Val KNOWS she doesn’t have Safari installed on her computer, or she should as any competent computer user *should*. Also well known by competent computer users is that you should NEVER. EVER. EVERRRRRRRRR blindly click on something your computer wants you to install. This is common knowledge to anyone with an awareness of hackers and viruses and whatnot.

    So YES- as Bes said, it’s a marketing gimmick by Apple to try to get you to install the software. And she’s right in that the use of the word “update” as opposed to “new install” or some other less ambiguous phrase would probably be more HONEST. But come on now. Honesty doesn’t sell cars now does it? But Apple is not actually LYING by omitting or using certain phrasing. Dishonest? Maybe. But that’s marketing.

    Can someone please explain to me why this is an issue worth getting so fired up about? Seriously, knee-jerk reactions and name calling are the base elements of war, and I think we’ve seen quite enough of THAT in our lifetimes.

  29. Chad W Smith · (subscriber)
    March 22nd, 2008 at 5.17 pm
     

    Look - I am sorry. I don’t want to start a war. I’m sorry for being offensive.

    I think we can all agree that this is not the most user friendly way of handling the situation. Apple could and should do a better job.

    I am sorry for attacking, Bes. It was uncalled for. You are not a liar. I take that back.

  30. Chad W Smith · (subscriber)
    March 22nd, 2008 at 5.32 pm
     

    @mitchell Magouirk - I have a Mac - I have Microsoft Office for Mac - it updates just fine without IE. I’m confused. Can you explain what you mean, please?

  31. Jessie
    March 22nd, 2008 at 6.02 pm
     

    @Chad: Good sport!

  32. Mom On The Run
    March 22nd, 2008 at 9.21 pm
     

    Wow! So many fired up comments to this post! I posted about the same thing yesterday and no one commented - LOL. I LOVE my iPod because of my Nike+ Sport Kit and how good it is for running. If there was an alternative music player that had that functionality on the market then I would jump on that bandwagon, but as far as I know there isn’t.

  33. Christopher
    March 24th, 2008 at 6.00 pm
     

    OK, I don’t want to contribute to the war, but I was just updating a computer here at school for my boss, and it said there were updates for iTunes and Safari. It almost got me too!

  34. Becky
    March 29th, 2008 at 10.14 pm
     

    I got this too. I thought it was spam.

  35. Val
    April 25th, 2008 at 3.23 pm
     

    Okay, so here’s the thing. I’ve told the updater to ignore the Safari “update” at least four times now. It asks me on a weekly basis. Ignore apparently means pretend to ignore, then remind you again later.

  36. YJ
    May 29th, 2008 at 4.38 am
     

    #35: I had pretty much the same experience on my Windows XP install. Apple Software Update prompted me to install Safari even though it had not been installed, and when I told Software Update to ignore it, it was back the next time an update to iTunes/QT was available. I find this to be a very poor play on Apple’s part.

    It’s been several weeks now, but I haven’t seen Apple Software Update prompt me to install Safari again. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I just don’t keep that “machine” (it’s actually a VM running in Parallels) up for any longer than I need it.

    I also run MacOS X, and Software Update on there doesn’t prompt me to install additional software. It only updates software I have installed.

    As others have alluded to, the reason iTunes and QT are inter-dependent is because iTunes uses QT as an audio/video framework. It’s the same deal on MacOS X. Doesn’t make QT suck any less, though… :o)

  37. Keilaron · (subscriber)
    June 8th, 2008 at 1.28 am
     

    Strange question:
    Are these updates to any of these Apple pieces of software actually any use to you?
    If not, you may as well just uninstall the Apple updater (it’s a separate package, IIRC!) and not have to deal with it at all. I prefer to update when I encounter an issue, not as soon as there’s an update*. It tends to keep things working and make it less painful to use.

    (* This is assuming that they’re not security updates, or that security updates don’t really apply. For example, I keep my OSes up to date, my server up to date on ALL software it runs, but I don’t update Foobar2000 on a regular basis.)

  38. Val
    June 9th, 2008 at 11.59 am
     

    Keilaron — yes, iTunes and Quicktime, but not Safari.
    I don’t always update right away, either, but I never bothered to uninstall the updater, I figured it was core and had to stay. I’ll give that a try, thanks. (Also, I don’t think the updater tells you what kind of updates it wants to make, just to which programs, so I can’t know if they are security issues or not.)

  39. Keilaron · (subscriber)
    July 29th, 2008 at 1.32 pm
     

    Val: Sadly, a fair amount of updaters don’t really tell you what the issue is or, if they do, don’t bother to summarize it (And you usually have to click a link or two, get to the security bulletin, wade through the cruft, and then digest the Big Words to get to some simple conclusion like “Oh, if you visit a site with a malformed image, it might crash your browser.”. Why can’t they just SAY that?).
    I have to admit, though, that I don’t use Apple software so I don’t know how it’ll react to the updater being un-installed (likely nothing since it appeared to be completely separate from the apps as well as the core, but still). Did you notice any ill effects?

  40. Val
    July 31st, 2008 at 4.15 pm
     

    You know what? Haha, I don’t even remember! I had to reformat the laptop not long ago and forgot all about it. I just uninstalled it. I don’t think there’s any ill effects though, it didn’t even freak with me uninstalling it (didn’t keep asking are you sure, but you really want this, etc.)

    But you’re right of course, most don’t tell you. Vista kinda tells you — if you actually look, that is. It will say security update or whatever and you can get more info. But things like Firefox and Thunderbird, I don’t think they tell you what the update is??

  41. Keilaron · (subscriber)
    August 2nd, 2008 at 11.56 am
     

    In that case, I’d wager there wasn’t much of a problem if you didn’t notice any ill effects ;) Of course, that depends on how long you kept it that way.

    I’m not sure about Vista, but for XP you have to click their link, hope that it’s still functional (some cease to work for some reason, and you have to manually look up the KB article using the ID that is in the “description” of the patch), and sometimes have to figure out what the hell they’re saying in the resulting bulletin.
    Fx and TB do tell you, but it’s similar; You have to click on the link, scroll do where there’s a link about the security fixes, and you get a list of what’s been fixed. You then have to read the bulletins (which are generally easy to understand, though just as vague as the Microsoft ones half the time) to know what’s been fixed… but they only are particularly verbose about the security fixes.

  42. Val
    August 8th, 2008 at 5.45 pm
     

    Hmm well for Vista, you just have to right click the update and pick view details. It tells you a bit and then I think there’s a link for extensive info.

    Of course, if you’re someone who auto gets the updates in the background, that won’t matter. :)

  43. Keilaron · (subscriber)
    August 9th, 2008 at 11.13 am
     

    That’s a good point! I don’t think any auto-update system provides a summary of what it’s done, which is rather unfortunate. If anything, they say something like “Your browser is now MORE SECURE!!11!!1!”.
    Yeah, okay.

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